That old chestnut... farang men, Thai girls

How many times have I sat in a bar and listened in on loud farangs, a couple of drinks worse for the wear, ranting on about everything that is bad about Thailand, and Thai girls in particular? More times than I care to count. Ok you, the reader, may well be one of them - if so, feel free to carry on your rant in the comments section below!

Some of my fellow expat bloggers, slightly further out in the sticks, may not come across this phenomenon quite so much. If so, just drop in on the ThaiVisa forum, where you'll find just about every shade of prejudice that the dregs of expat communities have been able to drag up. From politics to petting, culture to copulation, the Thais, it is alleged, are the pits; all gold-digging farang-haters who think foreigners are inferior beings, unworthy of respect.

I've pretty much stopped posting on ThaiVisa as a result - the intolerance and downright nastiness gets me down.

Anyway, back to sex (when is it ever about anything else?). Most negative comments come from the older farang who is trying to relive his lost youth in LOS, and is kidding himself that the vibrant young things somehow love him for what he is, rather than what he has. Nine times out of ten that kind of relationship is doomed to fail. As it would be in Oz, the UK, or anywhere else.

Some guys just set their sights too high?

So, am I another mug that is walking into the trap, eyes closed? So far I'm very happy, 18 months into a relationship, getting married in a couple of months' time. I don't see Thailand as fundamentally different to the rest of the world - if you can find someone you're suited to, who values honesty, respect and fidelity, then you've as much chance of being happy in LOS as anywhere else. So long as you feel the same way about those values, of course.

Ok one proviso - cross-cultural relationships statistically break up quite a lot more frequently than those with fellow nationals. But if you're the flexible sort, don't take yourself or your motherland too seriously, then it can work.

I like the way female/male roles are more clearcut in LOS - I've been shot at before for saying this, and I'm really not some kind of gung-ho male chauvinist (I do the washing up and change nappies as readily as the next 'new man') (ie unhappily) (only kidding of course ;-)... but in the West these days the pint-swilling, absolutely-everything-has-to-be-shared-and-equal women, just don't attract me in the same way as their Asian equivalent. The dividing line between man and woman has become so blurred back in the UK and the US, and as a result, to me at any rate, Thai women have that extra 'femininity' that seems to be going out of fashion back home.

Beautiful, demure, feminine... but just a fading pipe-dream for aging farangs??

I also have a great affinity for Thai culture - I don't think the Western way is the only one. Thais - men or women - are far more likely to appreciate you and want to get to know you, if you don't think that they belong to some kind of inferior, primitive sub-culture that we never quite got around to colonising, 'unfortunately' for them. That however is the attitude of many farangs in Thailand. Give 'em a beer, and they'll loudly put Thai society to rights, however many Thais are in earshot. It's more than embarrassing, and I don't know about you lot, but there are times when I want to (and have) apologised for their inexcusable, disrespectful behaviour.

Here's a quote from a 'tolerant' expat from Pattaya, from another forum I contribute to ...

"I know for sure that most Thais hate our guts!"

Complete and utter rubbish. He "knows" nothing of the sort.

I've lived in Thailand for two years in total, plus I've spent a helluva long time there in lengthy visits. Thais may hate his guts (and who can blame them?), they may be sick of the patronising Western pseudo colonial attitude of some. The indigenous folk of every country around the world see would-be expats (mostly from the West) who waltz in, thinking they know it all. But going not only by my personal experience but also by that of a sizeable number of long-term expat friends who have been in LOS longer than I, it can work out just fine... at least for those with the right attitude it can, anyway.

Sure I come across embittered, cantankerous, know-it-all old expats who've had a series of failed relationships, railing against the rotten Thais who are supposedly only after their money. To be perfectly honest, I'm not in the least bit surprised that they feel the Thais "hate their guts". They probably do, in certain cases.

Odd isn't it - no one's taken me for a ride, very few have tried, and those that have you can pretty much see where it's heading anyway, it's all rather transparent. I have good Thai friends, some of whom have at least as much money as I do. We talk about everything, many are really keen to find out more about the West, its attitudes towards Thailand and SE Asia. It's a relationship of equals. These are the sort of contacts I'm talking about, with real Thais, not stupid generalisations that are mostly formed down the local from chats and less than satisfactory attempts at relationships with bar girls.

What odds a successful relationship with a go-go dancer? Outside the Spotlight, Chiang Mai

The vast majority of Thais have little or no contact with farangs, and their vision of Westerners can be somewhat warped by the sight of sexpats crowding into Pattaya, so it's up to us to correct that unfortunate impression. It is possible - as those visitors who make an effort to integrate, and who enjoy warm and loving relationships with Thais - have managed to prove. Come on guys, speak out... don't let the Thai-haters have the final word. It can, and does work. For someone hoping to find a good relationship in Thailand, of course it can be done. No one, least of all me, is suggesting that everything in the garden's rosy. But that's no different wherever you are in the world.

A lot of guys do indeed turn up in LOS seeing it as the Garden of Eden, the ideal place for a second chance, combined with low costs. Of course they are vulnerable to being ensnared by the highly expert young flatterers that will be delighted to extract as much money from them as they are prepared to donate. But more fool the ageing expats who think that they can find true love in the bars with girls sometimes as much as 30 years younger. Not that even that is impossible. But imagine going into a pub in the UK as a sexagenarian and trying to pick up a girl in her 20s. Short of being a millionaire or having 'seasoned' film star looks, you would be given pretty short shrift.

Cultural differences are pretty marked. Those who aren't able to adapt easily, "when in Rome" and all that, will struggle. You may be lucky and find a Thai partner who can easily adapt to Western ways, but on the whole the Thais find this quite hard. Firstly you are a guest in Thailand, and a pretty widely-held unspoken feeling of most Thais is that most of the adapting should be done by you. Secondly, few Thais have even so much as travelled to Laos, forget Europe or anywhere in the West, so our culture is pretty alien to them. Especially as they get little exposure to it outside the occasional film, and they watch a lot less US-made stuff than you might imagine.

These cultural differences are pretty major, after thousands of years of separate development. Certain values and understandings are just not shared between the two countries. So key to things working out is open-mindedness, on both sides. If you can't be flexible, are incapable of appreciating life through new eyes, then any relationship is pretty much doomed to failure.

One common complaint from farangs is the pressure to donate money to the family cause, mum and dad, aunt, uncle and buffalo, away in the sticks somewhere. But Thailand has zero state social or health funding for the elderly (or anyone else), and the family support structure is pretty much the only way of surviving past useful working age, short of begging in the street. Over the ages the Thai people have developed a close-knit family/community system. All Thais consider it an honour to look after their family into old age, even if it means sacrificing a sizeable part of their own income to that end. Not to do so is seen as the most shameful of behaviour. They consider that they owe gratitude to their parents for looking after them - almost the opposite to the attitude of kids in the West, these days!

As this is such a fundamental, ingrained part of the Thai psyche, it is virtually impossible for them to understand how so many in the West more or less abandon their parents at the first possible opportunity. So asking us for money that they then give to their family, they don't see as the least bit manipulative. When we start a relationship with a Thai girl, we start a relationship with her family too, in a manner of speaking. It is part and parcel of the deal, and your partner will see it as perfectly natural and fair. If you grumble, they will see you as mean-spirited and disrespectful. Here once again a middle ground in understanding has to be found - cross-cultural relationships need flexibility, goodwill and understanding on both sides.

Anyone about to launch themselves into a relationship excessively influenced by my optimism - please don't sue if it all goes pear-shaped (and not only the hour-glass figure of your dream Thai girl). Think through just how adaptable you are, as well as how easily or otherwise your partner can acclimatise to your Western foibles. And do some reading - across the blogs, and also some of the published stuff. Here are a few recommendations:

First of all, the obvious one for newbies. "Thailand Fever" should be at the top of the must-buy list for every guy (or gal come to that) intent on a relationship with a Thai. And while you're at it, give it to your girl to read - it will be an eye-opener to her too, as every other page is written in Thai, and will really help her to understand what makes Westerners tick. Read the reviews of the book here.

Andrew Hicks is a guy I've corresponded with a fair bit, and he has written some great and witty stuff on his relationship with a Thai girl. The book is called ... er ... Thai Girl. There's an equally good sequel, called My Thai Girl and I. Check out his website for details.

"Very Thai, Everyday Popular Culture" by Philip Corawel-Smith (verythai.com) is another great read, with some excellent insights.

Plenty can't help themselves... but if you want to play with fire, be prepared for the consequences...

A more cynical view about the bargirl scene is "Private Dancer" by Stephen Leather. The cult classic novel about an expat who loses the plot amongst the bars of the Big Mango. A definite must-read.

Jesse Gump's "Even Thai Girls Cry" I really liked. Picked up my copy in the local second-hand bookshop, couldn't find it new. Moving stuff, a supposedly fictional story, reads rather as if the author is recounting his own experiences...

Finally, a book I'll be getting next month when I get back to Thailand, Sex Talk by Kaewmala. I've been told it's well worth a read, coming from the point of view of a Thai woman for a change, rather than a farang male author. As the blurb describes it, a “guidebook to Thai sexual culture.”

I've read a whole lot more, but that's a taster. Most have been written by farangs who have made a go of it, and their relationships, in Thailand. Not without struggle and compromise at times, but that can be said about any relationship, even in your own country.

Any other reading recommendations from fellow expats? Feel free to add them below!

Of course... if you can't make up your mind... there's always this option!

cross cultural relationships thai girls thai marriage thai reading list thai bar girls