tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7211296431435270917.post3590346714544796624..comments2023-12-14T19:58:58.019+07:00Comments on FrogBlog - Thaidings: Western society and values, R.I.P.Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7211296431435270917.post-21719666734531006302009-05-29T11:08:15.930+07:002009-05-29T11:08:15.930+07:00Eve, been enjoying your trip through SE Asia... le...Eve, been enjoying your trip through SE Asia... learning from your mistakes as I plan my trip to Vietnam! Guest houses that are really brothels are to be avoided, my wife3B would not be pleased...<br /><br />Yes the internet, a double-edged sword. It's not as if most of those kids in the internet cafes are doing anything useful, just playing games... no social interaction, they don't even look up from their screens as you enter...The Frogbloggerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06974272262704070183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7211296431435270917.post-28169231855584070592009-05-29T10:43:13.063+07:002009-05-29T10:43:13.063+07:00Twenty years in France, that's a huge chunk of tim...Twenty years in France, that's a huge chunk of time! I left France in '94, so we have an overlap of experiences. <br /><br />And while Pau is an old city (with a long English connection), the French believe it is 'out in the sticks'. It was especially thought so by Parisians.<br /><br />My time in France was pre-internet explosion. so it's a given that the country has moved on since then. <br /><br />But as for moving up... well... as you said, that is debatable.Catherinehttp://womenlearnthai.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7211296431435270917.post-58981031689202815012009-05-29T10:21:21.253+07:002009-05-29T10:21:21.253+07:00Catherine, in total I've spent 20 years in France....Catherine, in total I've spent 20 years in France. Nothing like as bad up to a few years ago, but it's been creeping up on us for a while now. My place in Provence is rural too, plus we spent 5 years living in the Savoie, where most kids were skiers as in Pau. But there's a kind of inexorable Americanisation; even if out in the sticks family values are still important, it's a losing battle. Ever shorter lunchbreaks, all kids have to talk about at break is what cheats are available for Xbox Oblivion... ok nowhere near as bad as the UK yet, but getting there.The Frogbloggerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06974272262704070183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7211296431435270917.post-5285466146359003712009-05-28T20:46:15.072+07:002009-05-28T20:46:15.072+07:00Ah, something I've been thinking of. Like in Muong...Ah, something I've been thinking of. Like in Muong Ngoy -- a small riverside village in Laos (and aware that you're writing about Thailand) -- they have no electricity. On one hand that means no fans or tv. On the other, women weave beautiful handlooms and children and men make awesome bamboo-ware. Apparently the Laos government is now talking about 'electrifying' the village. More than anyone else, village parents are concerned. Would their children turn into the kind of children you (read, I) saw in Dien Bien Phu? Rows and rows of seats filled up in internet cafes with kids pushing buttons? <br /><br />Still thinking and wondering... will come back here again. Thankyou for stopping by on my blog.<br /><br />JBAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06940726266857576700noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7211296431435270917.post-30404393944660016772009-05-28T19:34:36.540+07:002009-05-28T19:34:36.540+07:00Pete, I'm sorry to hear that the French kids are g...Pete, I'm sorry to hear that the French kids are going the way of the US and the UK.<br /><br />When I lived in Pau, the local kids I knew were bright, well-behaved, and interested in the world around them.<br /><br />The Canadian and American kids I knew had Gameboys constantly in their hands, but not the French. <br /><br />Their days seemed to be filled with outside activities. <br /><br />In the winter, on Wednesdays, for a half day the schools in my area let the kids go off skiing. <br /><br />I couldn't imagine them giving that up to sit in front of Gameboys and computers. <br /><br />From what I experienced, France, like Thailand, has a close-knit family structure with everyone involving themselves in the upbringing of the young ones.<br /><br />In my area, French mothers worked, but it was known that their first responsibility was to raising their children, so no latchkey kids as in the West (that I knew of anyway). <br /><br />These days, in the West both husband and wife feel the need to work to support their families. <br /><br />But with both dragging in from work tired, the kids are often left to babysit themselves with gadgets and more. <br /><br />The kids are raising themselves and this is what we get. Sad.Catherinehttp://womenlearnthai.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7211296431435270917.post-54281375023378157322009-05-28T16:35:59.030+07:002009-05-28T16:35:59.030+07:00LOL, lifes wasted on the young.LOL, lifes wasted on the young.Wotchitnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7211296431435270917.post-76107551335332545532009-05-28T16:18:29.914+07:002009-05-28T16:18:29.914+07:00Gravel? Luxury! We got a cup of sulphuric acid if ...Gravel? Luxury! We got a cup of sulphuric acid if we were lucky before Dad slit us in two wit' bread knife :-)<br /><br /><B>Wotchit</B>, trouble is some of us are indeed old enough to remember a more rewarding, less self-interested philosophy of life, and the younger generations will only cotton on to what's going on mostly when it's too late...<br /><br />Hindsight only works when you've been around long enough to have it :-(The Frogbloggerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06974272262704070183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7211296431435270917.post-18562562709525564912009-05-28T15:35:02.340+07:002009-05-28T15:35:02.340+07:00If I can inject a more hopeful note Pete, just lik...If I can inject a more hopeful note Pete, just like to remind you that EVERY generation moans about the younger one. Think back to your childhood (ohhh...through the dim and distant fog ;)). I'm sure you can remember someone, even in those halcyon day, muttering something about 'flaming kids...don't know they're born...in MY day we had to put up with lead poisoning from our tin soldiers and nowt to eat but gravel...' Its the natural order, whinging about the youth of today.Wotchitnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7211296431435270917.post-47167561264996040352009-05-27T15:32:25.785+07:002009-05-27T15:32:25.785+07:00Ben, lots of good points in there... hard work, ph...<B>Ben</B>, lots of good points in there... hard work, <I>phi</I> - definitely a big factor... the TV... but how long before things change radically here, as LOS gets richer (assuming they start to spread the wealth around a bit more). Hmm, thinking about it, maybe the elite is doing the Thai people a favour by slowing down their Westernisation, even if for entirely selfish motives...The Frogbloggerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06974272262704070183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7211296431435270917.post-55892833912323764492009-05-27T14:42:35.773+07:002009-05-27T14:42:35.773+07:00Hi Pete, I think a lot of it has to do with family...Hi Pete, I think a lot of it has to do with family ties and a work driven culture. Going from a 5 day week in UK we now work 7, and the kids are involved, pretty much every day is work. Family attitudes are also different, rather than having aunts / uncles / cousins at home you see now and again, cousins in Thai families are bought up as brothers and sisters, aunts and uncles are parents, which must help kids to break away from 'us and them' mindsets, and help create positive impressions of others. Also, you have that special 'Phi' mentality - respect your elders - embedded as soon as the kids are crawling. <br /><br />Like Mike I've seen some richer children though, who are being brought up in a more 'Western' households (ie - they are always told how brilliant they are, and always usually get their own way) it doesn't mean they will turn out bad but, I think it is different from a traditional Thai upbringing. <br /><br />The other thing I notice is TV. I can't tell you how much time I've saved through not watching mindless talent contests, soaps and even sport. I think this saved time may help foster that Thai creativity you talk about at the start of your post. In the UK, they don't realise how much they seem to rely on the TV listings...Ben Shingletonhttp://thethaipirate.typepad.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7211296431435270917.post-17047489085623667732009-05-27T14:09:27.818+07:002009-05-27T14:09:27.818+07:00Thanks David. Praise from a pro photographer is al...Thanks <I>David</I>. Praise from a pro photographer is always gratefully received. Have added yours to my 'random blogs I admire' section.The Frogbloggerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06974272262704070183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7211296431435270917.post-74067733632511922332009-05-27T13:50:53.807+07:002009-05-27T13:50:53.807+07:00Thanks for your visit and egenrous comment.
These...Thanks for your visit and egenrous comment.<br /><br />These are beautiful images of a country I have been fortunate to visit several times.david mcmahonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18009095220051075552noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7211296431435270917.post-21130445885776106852009-05-27T12:01:19.053+07:002009-05-27T12:01:19.053+07:00Hi Jon... hardly stockpiled, in fact as my 5 month...Hi <I>Jon</I>... hardly stockpiled, in fact as my 5 month stay in France has worn on, ideas were increasingly lacking, to the point when posts dried up altogether for a while. Just not inspired to write about France, maybe another time. Hope it all works out for your son here, before Thailand gets too Westernised! Look forward to seeing him play for Arsenal one day, but he'll have to learn French ;-)<br /><br /><I>Talen</I> yes it was around the late 60s that things started to go seriously downhill in the UK as well, following the US lead. I can hardly recognise the place and some of the attitudes when I go back now (and it's 10 years since my last visit).<br /><br /><I>Anon</I>, you're right only a matter of time probably. Still it's a good sign your kids have managed to adapt so quickly to Thailand and its quieter ways. Long may they last here...The Frogbloggerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06974272262704070183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7211296431435270917.post-67477559051510814012009-05-27T11:23:12.021+07:002009-05-27T11:23:12.021+07:00My Girls, 10, 7, 5 have been in Thailand for two ...My Girls, 10, 7, 5 have been in Thailand for two years, previously UK.<br /> They attend Thai School where I'm sure they get taught about respect and being nice little girls etc. etc.. <br /> The Teachers always say they are very well behaved and quiet. It seems I've got something right. <br /><br /> I seldom saw them during the school holidays as they were out playing with friends in the village, having little adventures etc. and swimming in just about any local water they could find. Very similar to my Childhood too.<br /><br /> When I go back home and visit places from my childhood I seldom see any Kids 'playing out' at all. Most of them are home attached to digital devices. <br /><br /> It seems to me atleast that nature has benefitted from there absense and reclaimed the Area's I used to play for herself. <br /><br />Unfortunately we've still got the cartoon Channel here and lots of digital devices too. If anything the Village Kids will play with them for longer durations than my Kids if they get the opportunity . I also know the local internet shops are sadly full with young online gamers after school so its only a matter of time. <br /><br />Maybe the Nature will benefit here too ;-)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7211296431435270917.post-34891666038492497222009-05-27T03:45:59.202+07:002009-05-27T03:45:59.202+07:00My girls brothers fall into the western category a...My girls brothers fall into the western category a good bit. Every free second they have is playing video games or drinking beer. but they still work around the family farm.<br /><br />I think they best thing Thailand has going for it is the community factor but you never know if that will get lost in time or not. America was big on community but somewhere in the 1950's -1960's that fell by the wayside.Talenhttp://thailandlandofsmiles.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7211296431435270917.post-73400062082123630402009-05-26T23:40:37.347+07:002009-05-26T23:40:37.347+07:00Hi Pete, another excellent post - have stockpiled ...Hi Pete, another excellent post - have stockpiled a load from France?<br /><br />You're absolutely spot on, this is precisely the reason we are raising our son in Thailand, initially anyhow. The thought of him growing up to have no respect, patience, and appreciation of Thai culture helped make the decision.<br /><br />I have to agree with Mike (and you) that some parts of Thailand are replicating the West but while I still see kids reading books, comics and actually talking to their parents, then not all is lost yet.Jonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12803116544687008923noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7211296431435270917.post-37976188071768561152009-05-26T19:07:44.319+07:002009-05-26T19:07:44.319+07:00Oh sure Mike, there's no doubt it's on its way in ...Oh sure <I>Mike</I>, there's no doubt it's on its way in here too, part of an inevitable Westernisation. The redeeming factor is that it's lagging far enough behind to remind me of how things once were back home! Give it twenty years or so though, and the kids here will as miserable and ungrateful as they are in the West today, probably! (Ever the optimist ;-)The Frogbloggerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06974272262704070183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7211296431435270917.post-11707507986104982472009-05-26T18:47:23.835+07:002009-05-26T18:47:23.835+07:00Pete I tend to see both sides of the coin here. I...Pete I tend to see both sides of the coin here. In our village the kids make their own sanuk pretty much like I did as a lad in rural England many moons ago. A clapped out bike if they are lucky.<br /><br />But nip into Prachuap after school and the Internet cafes are bursting at the seams with Thai kids playing computer games. Same country different worlds.<br /><br />One final example. I have a Thai friend in town who is what I would call a middle class Chinese Thai. His kids have all he latests gadgets just like home and are somewhat spoiled in my opinion. Usually when I visit they are glued to the TV watching cartoon network!Mikehttp://www.my-thai-friend.comnoreply@blogger.com