tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7211296431435270917.post2957289106995927685..comments2023-12-14T19:58:58.019+07:00Comments on FrogBlog - Thaidings: Thailand’s tarnished image abroad: Thai tourism in declineUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger23125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7211296431435270917.post-21439442497969444422009-07-26T13:37:26.527+07:002009-07-26T13:37:26.527+07:00Ben: During your many trips you no doubt noticed t...Ben: During your many trips you no doubt noticed that the environment is a lot more harsh for some Thai's than it is for others - have you ever pondered why that is so?<br /><br />Overall, I think Thailand is a rich country in many ways, with abundance & excess, but it also seems to have a lot of poor.hobbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04251478382712113226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7211296431435270917.post-82109045045922815762009-07-26T01:48:18.242+07:002009-07-26T01:48:18.242+07:00Oh I disagree so much with most of the criticism o...Oh I disagree so much with most of the criticism of Thailand. I have been a visiting Thailand and Pattay for 30 years. My best experience was always the last time I was there. <br /><br />The Thais are searingly intelligent people who live in a notoriously harsh environment. THere are no cushions, no second chances, its all a matter of life and death. We wouldnt last 4 hiours in a paddy field and couldnt survive on 4 dollars a day.<br /><br />Its not a choice thing. You must keep your family and do whatever it takes to survive and wear a smile. Its that or rifle but and paddy fields.<br /><br />They are beautiful people and I doubt whether one of you bloggers could wear such smiles whilst having to suffer the awful ugliness of the obese classless farang. Pattaya is a clinic for the most hapless of Farangs - the misfits - the worst of the worst. <br /><br />However - there are probably more sex slaves in LOndon than in Pattaya - but at the end of the day - I love these people - they are and have to be survivors no matter what. <br /><br />I was there for 6 months , returning in May 09. THe best time I have ever had. Thanks <br /><br />Well travelled Ben LondonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7211296431435270917.post-58189072585160431102009-06-15T18:30:21.461+07:002009-06-15T18:30:21.461+07:00hobby, have to admit that's the general direct...<b>hobby</b>, have to admit that's the general direction I'm heading in these days. Somewhere between that, and VF's approach anyway. The do-gooder thing is reciprocated less and less anyway in a modern, increasingly selfish world, worse still the response you get is mostly negative or exploitative, so it's not worth the hassle. Sad though that things are coming to this...The Frogbloggerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06974272262704070183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7211296431435270917.post-15462831289549609252009-06-15T17:34:01.907+07:002009-06-15T17:34:01.907+07:00You guys are way ahead of me - I've settled fo...You guys are way ahead of me - I've settled for just leaving as small a footprint as I can.hobbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04251478382712113226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7211296431435270917.post-54351443305439980702009-06-15T16:59:51.136+07:002009-06-15T16:59:51.136+07:00VF, there is an argument that there is no such thi...<b>VF</b>, there is an argument that there is no such thing as 'pure' altruism. It's all reciprocal, to a greater or lesser extent. But take away <i>quid pro quo</i> altruism, and what do you have left? At least it's better than the alternative...<br /><br />Much as you are entirely correct about the self-inflicted nature of man's problems, we're a social animal that has managed to survive so far by maintaining a delicate balance between aggression and cooperation. I feel some responsibility towards future generations; even if that 'altruistic' urge is genetically and memetically driven rather than by some objective moral compass, we need it to have any chance of surviving.The Frogbloggerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06974272262704070183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7211296431435270917.post-23034358292779424662009-06-15T16:27:46.807+07:002009-06-15T16:27:46.807+07:00On an individual level, I'm not convinced that...On an individual level, I'm not convinced that our "Don Quixote" imitations, will make any measurable difference. Call me cynical, but I don't trust institutions and how they spend money. I also suspect the motives of many of the do-gooders. Often it seems more about their egos, self-image and lifestyle, than anything else. Talking is all about the hearing of ones own voice and does little to change things.<br /><br />That leaves getting down and dirty and giving of your time in a hands-on way. All I can manage is my parents, my wife and her immediate family, jobs for a few villagers, and some assistance at school, temple, and community events. I prefer to remain in the shadows, so use my wife as a surrogate and only pretend to be able to influence the lives of people I can literally reach out and touch.Village Faranghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02369786770626113739noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7211296431435270917.post-4833677465761905102009-06-15T15:50:22.855+07:002009-06-15T15:50:22.855+07:00Hobby that's the problem, get too engaged and ...<b>Hobby</b> that's the problem, get too engaged and it's too easy to be disillusioned on another level. A position somewhere between outright wallowing and VF's seeming isolationism would seem about right. If anyone gets the balance right, please let me know the secret ;-)<br /><br />As for Pattaya, the sceptic in me sees all the going upmarket hype as just another opportunity for the scammers and the corrupt to make a few million.The Frogbloggerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06974272262704070183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7211296431435270917.post-14485742479139646502009-06-15T15:30:02.613+07:002009-06-15T15:30:02.613+07:00Good point about the wallowing, although such sigh...Good point about the wallowing, although such sights sometimes allows the usually well hidden 'bleeding heart' within me to trigger another round of wallowing at the injustice/unfairness of it all.<br /><br />Pattaya has a chance of being an upmarket resort/theme park type place for rich asians/families, but it would take much more <b>coordination in planning</b> than I've seen exhibited anywhere else in Thailand, (except maybe for co-ordination shown in crushing any discussion of you know what:)hobbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04251478382712113226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7211296431435270917.post-48339412250021711882009-06-15T15:09:28.964+07:002009-06-15T15:09:28.964+07:00Hobby, a couple of limbless beggars in a side soi ...<b>Hobby</b>, a couple of limbless beggars in a side soi soon puts things in perspective for me if I start to wallow... <b>Catherine</b>, I'll believe it when I see it! Maybe Thais are making more of an effort because of the downturn, but in plenty of cases they react in the wrong way to a lack of business - they put prices up! Actually I didn't have too many problems with repair problems during my last stay. I have a really good mate in Chiang Mai who is a tuk-tuk driver, knows everyone, a real fixer. I give him a lot of business ferrying me around - he acts as site foreman/project manager/cheapest product finder. Has worked so far!... <b>VF</b>, that's the only perspective that works for true peace of mind. Still, I think it's important to be engaged, if you feel for those who are less fortunate and whose main concerns are day-to-day survival, with no chance of setting themselves up in relative isolation from the world's ills. <b>Martyn</b>, I'm not so sure about blinkered as just too accepting of the social order, the corrupt and exploiters get away with things that would be jumped upon in the West. <b>Talen</b> I just can't see Pattaya being transformed into an upmarket resort, but what do I know. I hope you're right and the new tourist will be the prosperous Asians, but they're suffering from the crisis as well of course.The Frogbloggerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06974272262704070183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7211296431435270917.post-74884415525939332582009-06-15T07:58:52.499+07:002009-06-15T07:58:52.499+07:00All the things you mentioned coupled with the seve...All the things you mentioned coupled with the sever world wide economic downturn will keep Thai tourism down for a while. <br /><br />With Americans and Brits seeing a decline in the dollar and pound it doesn't make Thailand as attractive as it once was.<br /><br />I think Thai tourism will still be ok to a certain point though. The Tourism Authority has been really going after the Chinese, Korean, Russian and Indian tourists and those bets have been paying off to an extent.<br /><br />Although Pattaya may not be that upmarket destination yet as Bangkok Blogger said, one only needs to look around town to see the changes being made to get those tourists. Beach road has been losing bars for 2 years and in their place are upscale malls and eateries. Soi 9 once had bars now is all hotels. Soi 8 has lost half it's bars and soi 7 is slated for more hotel expansions.Talenhttp://thailandlandofsmiles.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7211296431435270917.post-2321790534677772252009-06-14T11:56:52.114+07:002009-06-14T11:56:52.114+07:00On my recent Thailand visit Pattaya was dead and o...On my recent Thailand visit Pattaya was dead and on it's knees, even the bar girls had kind of given up on shouting "hello sexy man" at the few passing tourists. Udon Thani is never tourist rich but this time there were definitely less about, worrying times for Thailand and yet they seem to be doing little to rectify the problem. The strong baht won't help but neither will the blinkers they are wearing kickstart the recovery. A solution is a difficult equation.Martynhttp://www.thaisabai.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7211296431435270917.post-179562698639002432009-06-14T10:22:49.717+07:002009-06-14T10:22:49.717+07:00For the life of me I can't remember when I sto...For the life of me I can't remember when I stopped pondering and pontificating on the ills of Thailand. Eventually the novelty, of Thais being shocked at what I knew, began to wear off. Of course there were the, two month expats, who most certainly knew better than I. I guess at some point I just decided to mold my own little sphere of existence.<br /><br />Life is clearly unfair and always has been. Just as there are two sides to a coin, there is a dark and light side of life. Having spent too much time in the dark, I now choose to live in the light and as far from the self inflicted evils of man, as I can muster. <br /><br />I did want to thank you for mentioning my blog a while back and the astute notion of reading between the lines that lie between the lines.Village Faranghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02369786770626113739noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7211296431435270917.post-61821554775718411962009-06-14T09:05:08.440+07:002009-06-14T09:05:08.440+07:00Although the freelancing Thais around me do talk a...Although the freelancing Thais around me do talk about the downturn, instead of sitting around, they have become more creative with making money. <br /><br />Note: mine is just a small world so cannot really be taken into account when one has to look at the whole of Thailand.<br /><br />For over a year I've been trying to get workers in to fix what was not done right when I renovated. But now, all of a sudden, new workers have appeared and there is a flurry of action. <br /><br />It is similar with two other projects I've tried to get going. The dragging of feet has turned into the pitter patter of many. <br /><br />And those of you who have tried to get anything done in SE Asia (not just Thailand) that is not a huge, expensive undertaking, will know what I'm talking about. Getting a reno done, no prob. Getting the small, totally not glamorous/important seeming odd jobs done, difficult.<br /><br />I'm sorry that it has taken a downturn in the economy to bring on these changes, but this, I like.Catherinehttp://womenlearnthai.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7211296431435270917.post-33678065278246248862009-06-14T07:33:07.792+07:002009-06-14T07:33:07.792+07:00I'm even more depressed now
Yes, sadly, that...<i>I'm even more depressed now</i> <br /><br />Yes, sadly, thats one of the few things I'm good at - bringing down people to my level of depression.<br /><br />Unfortunately it doesn't seem to work in reverse, as the more positive types can never seem to lift me to their level, although your & Lloyd's sharing over at VF's blog has helped put into perspective how self indulgent my wallowing in bleakness really is.hobbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04251478382712113226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7211296431435270917.post-33403247441722778582009-06-13T19:20:21.722+07:002009-06-13T19:20:21.722+07:00Hobby, I'm even more depressed now than when I...<b>Hobby</b>, I'm even more depressed now than when I was writing it, thanks! ;-) Your perspective over a long period of time makes sense, any code that there once was is being diluted by imported values of self-interest, profit at all costs.<br /><br />All compounded of course by general laid-back Thai inefficiencies, corruption and cronyism. <br /><br /><b>Catherine</b>, agreed, it's nice to see the lack of crowds, but worrying to see all those that have become dependent on the flow of tourists struggling to make a living. Though they seem less worried about it than me, it's all very 'that's life' in the bars and tourist haunts! There's a lesson to be learnt in there somewhere...The Frogbloggerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06974272262704070183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7211296431435270917.post-82886783386900699022009-06-13T08:56:39.553+07:002009-06-13T08:56:39.553+07:00'Any positive signs from Thailand in response ...'Any positive signs from Thailand in response to the crisis? '<br /><br />If you live here and do not depend on tourism, then the one positive is that Thailand is not as crowded.<br /><br />But it is not just tourism that is taking a hit. Expats are now rethinking their decision to live in Thailand. <br /><br />Before the landslide of negativity, I could blow off concerns from friends and relatives about either my living here or them coming for a visit. <br /><br />Now it is next to impossible to pooh pooh, as there is too much negative news. And worse, it keeps rolling in. <br /><br />Beer mats, being rude, donuts... <br /><br />Come on Thailand, wake up!Catherinehttp://womenlearnthai.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7211296431435270917.post-5059262630473961462009-06-13T07:12:29.876+07:002009-06-13T07:12:29.876+07:00Two observations:
1. A decade or 2 ago crime agai...Two observations:<br /><br />1. A decade or 2 ago crime against foreigners seemed to have been deemed 'off limits' and severe punishment was given to offenders who broke the code - IMO that 'code' no longer exists.<br /><br />2. The more a 'tourist' knows about the 'real' Thailand the less they will like it.<br /><br />But none of that seems to matter anymore, possibly because the Thai big wigs have observed that a new set of tourists will come, no matter what misfortune other tourists may have suffered before them, and no matter how spoilt the natural areas become.<br /><br />And the old timers, repeat customers are not really tourists anymore - they either learn to ignore the real underbelly of Thailand, or they revel in it:)hobbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04251478382712113226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7211296431435270917.post-87287808493505865432009-06-13T04:11:08.625+07:002009-06-13T04:11:08.625+07:00Thanks Smorg, I try to tell it as I see it, withou...Thanks <b>Smorg</b>, I try to tell it as I see it, without the rose-tinted shades. I too hope Thailand's time will come again, but my feeling is that things are heading in the wrong direction at the moment. Still there are many, many places in the world where I would rather not be!The Frogbloggerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06974272262704070183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7211296431435270917.post-55100671806424729322009-06-13T02:55:59.623+07:002009-06-13T02:55:59.623+07:00I get a much better picture of what it's like ...I get a much better picture of what it's like there reading your blog than I do reading the newspapers online. It's sad to see that the pluses there had been overshadowed by the minuses the past couple of years. :o( Hopefully the worldwide economy would bounce back soon!<br /><br />Thanks for more real updates from Thailand, Frog. :o)Smorghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01604438508775705758noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7211296431435270917.post-32266157965067604622009-06-13T01:26:00.729+07:002009-06-13T01:26:00.729+07:00Bangkok Blogger, all good points, thanks.
Pattaya...<b>Bangkok Blogger</b>, all good points, thanks.<br /><br />Pattaya for families? What a joke. And it's about time the Thai tourist authorities realised that effective tourism policy is built on an across the board appeal - not just to high-end users, but to middle market and cheap end consumers as well. Right now, today, they could use tourists of any description, even the backpackers.The Frogbloggerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06974272262704070183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7211296431435270917.post-61572615080561376682009-06-12T23:56:28.916+07:002009-06-12T23:56:28.916+07:00The Thai authorites attempt at marketing Pattaya a...The Thai authorites attempt at marketing Pattaya as a family destination is absurd. Likewise their policy on keeping the Baht strong is also absurd. <br /><br />But I really think they are doing it in an effort to get the 'Up Market' tourist to come to Thailand and the 'riff raff' to keep away. - but they are very mistaken !! <br /><br />Yes, some riff raff have gone, but they have not been replaced by Up Market tourists as hoped !<br /><br />There are too many negative things in Thailand for it to become an 'Up Market' family destination.Bangkok Bloggerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05036905562531034022noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7211296431435270917.post-57484161935070101662009-06-12T21:32:30.002+07:002009-06-12T21:32:30.002+07:00Lloyd - having spent some time in Morocco, I don&#...<b>Lloyd</b> - having spent some time in Morocco, I don't find it so 'in your face' in Thailand, but I know what you mean. I suppose it all goes hand in hand with Westernisation, increasing greed. The innocence is being eroded away... is there much left, anywhere in the world?The Frogbloggerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06974272262704070183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7211296431435270917.post-29056368044295240652009-06-12T21:10:31.357+07:002009-06-12T21:10:31.357+07:00I would also add that many tourists are simply get...I would also add that many tourists are simply getting sick of tourism the "Thai" way and the 'in your face' poor attitude towards "farangs" in general and the general degredation of much of Thailands natural beauty.<br /><br />I adore my wife, her family and their culture yet I am losing interest for what was once I destination I longed to return too.Lloydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09761202968212585597noreply@blogger.com